Leap Year glitches, Apple EV scrapped, AI Quirks + more

Special thanks to organisations who support innovation and tech leadership in New Zealand by partnering with NZ Tech Podcast: One NZ HP Spark NZ 2degrees Gorilla Technology

Episode Transcript (computer-generated)

Paul Spain:
Today, we’re with Darcy Ungaro from the New Zealand Everyday Investor podcast. Welcome along, Darcy. How are you?

Darcy Ungaro:
Hey. Thanks for having me, Paul. I’m good. Thank you very much.

Paul Spain:
Fantastic. Now, for those that aren’t familiar, where you fit into this big wide world of media, tech, investment, business, a little intro on yourself.

Darcy Ungaro:
Sure. Yeah. Like, I’m I’m at the very top of the pinnacle, right, of of technology and media and podcasting and investing. So where I fit in the world? Well, about, oh, 5 or 6 years ago, I guess, you you were, kind enough to give me an introduction into the podcasting world. Before that, I was just kinda world famous all by myself, and my mother-in-law was my only fan. Now I’ve got my mother-in-law and, like, at least half

Paul Spain:
of those people.

Darcy Ungaro:
Fantastic. So I’m a financial adviser, and I help people into and out of their properties. I help people get set up with a really good KiwiSaver plan. I help people get a financial strategy in place. So I don’t just sell products. I I basically sell my time and answer questions. So that’s the day job. And then, I guess, the night job or my hobby is host of the Everyday Investor podcast where we cover things from mainstream investing all the way to the alternatives or, I guess, what I like to call probably the way of the future.

Darcy Ungaro:
So, that’s kind of what what I do, and, yeah, I’m loving it.

Paul Spain:
Yep. Well, looking forward to chatting to you about the tech news of the week, and we also have, an episode where we’re gonna delve into, you know, the the investment world and and particularly the the the tech enabled sort of aspects of that, you know, talking AI, talking, you know, block chain, type type, investments and so on. So looking forward to delving into that as well. But first up, let’s, let’s say a big thank you to our show partners, to 1NZ, SparkNZ, 2 Degrees, HP, and Gorilla Technology. We appreciate their support for the New Zealand Tech podcast. And let’s jump into the New Zealand news. There’s there’s a fair bit, you know, going on at the moment. One of the one of the things that jumped out to me was, a bit of a leap year, software glitch that, took out the ability to pay, at pent petrol pumps, around the country.

Paul Spain:
So what seems to have been the case is those, petrol pumps that we’re using, the Invenco, point of sale software, basically, there was there was some sort of bug there, and that stopped people being able to, do their transactions on the 29th of, of February. So, yeah, a few a few lessons there when it comes to, you know, dealing with these sorts of things. I saw a quote from, the Gull spokesperson, Julian Lees, and that was that was, you know, interesting. They were just saying, oh, just one of those things that’s caused, you know, payment software to have a glitch in terms of referring to February, you know, 29th. But, the register put it this way. This is why developers use use tried and tested libraries that have been around for decades and don’t typically dare to touch anything concerning calendar time logic themselves, least they be fast tracked to insanity. So there probably would have been a few people feeling like they were going, a bit insane on Feb 29th when, you know, I don’t know what the, you know, amount of transactions were that, that failed, but, you know, could could easily be 1,000,000 of dollars worth of worth of transactions, you know, due to this sort of issue. So, yep.

Paul Spain:
Some good good lessons there for folks in the tech world.

Darcy Ungaro:
What does fast track to insanity mean though? Like, is it isn’t that just part of being human? We’re all fast tracked to to insanity?

Paul Spain:
Well, so, you know, some some more some more than others, Darcy. And, you know, at at at times, one might wonder whether, being involved in in technology is is a way to, to get fast tracked, you know, even faster. But Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Now, other things sort of happening, locally, We’ve got, Amazon or AWS, who have been working on their, opening their data centers and and having a local, you know, region here, in Auckland. And we’ve got an episode coming up where where we will be speaking with with AWS, around, around some of the the the latest happenings. But, yeah, it’s been reported that their their building, one of their buildings in Auckland is held up due to some issues with their stormwater design, and, this has impacted their ability to to move move things ahead.

Paul Spain:
So, you know, they they have to comply with an integrated catchment management plan for, Tautera Creek, where they’re they’re based. And so their resource consent application, was paused. And this is now going back around, around 6 months. So, yeah, not not, probably not helpful for them for for getting launched here, but, and and chatting with them, you know, they’re they’re certainly still, you know, still going ahead, but, but there’s there’s a bit of a delay in there. So, no doubt there will there will be a point we’ll hear some, you know, some more details on that, on that launch. Of course, Microsoft, you know, also working on their their hyperscale, cloud infrastructure, launch in in New Zealand as well. So I guess to a degree, some of these things are part and parcel of, you know, of of of having infrastructure as you do have these physical things that are really important to get, to get right. And, you know, that’s always the balancing act when it when it comes to environmental impacts, that there’s there’s, you know, work to do.

Paul Spain:
Some you can get right up front. Some has to be adjusted later. Now, we have heard, and I’m curious for your thoughts on on on this one, Darcy. Tech billionaire Peter Thiel, who as many of us know is is a New Zealand citizen, though he doesn’t reside here, or intend to really spend a whole lot of time here at, you know, at at any any committed point, but, he’s he’s been given the, the New Zealand equivalent of a of a, well, better than a green card, I suppose. A full full citizen. And he’s been working on, on his his new lodge where he’s got a a team that have been working on that, down in Wanaka. And this has attracted, a bit of news because it continues to be some, you know, some pushback on what he’s building. But, yeah, looks, looks like a a pretty massive, investment, and I guess that’s what, being successful in the tech world, can can do for you.

Paul Spain:
And, yeah, he he’s building this amazing sorta I don’t know if bunkers the right terminology when you when you look at, at at what he’s, he’s he’s he’s building. The land that he bought, I think it was something like $13,500,000 some, some 9 years ago, in in Danfpur Bay that he’s, he’s acquired. But talking about the, the size and and, and scale of of one part, they would they were talking, trying to find the numbers here. A 100 and the building being a 190 meters long and up to 9.6, meters high, and they’re trying to hide it from the landscape. So, yeah, quite quite fascinating. But when you’ve got almost unlimited, money and you’ve had, incredible success in the tech world, it gives you that opportunity. On the flip side, what we’ve got, is is some locals, some local organizations down there who are, appeal appealing, or who are, you know, appealing to the district council to, you know, to stop the development. That’s the Upper Cluthier Environmental Society and the Longview Environmental Trust.

Paul Spain:
So, so they’re they’re opposing it, based on the visibility of the lodge from the nearby trail, and and Lake Wanaka. As an investment man, what do what do you think? Have you got some, some thoughts on how we should treat our, offshore based, billionaires, Darcy? What’s, what what’s what’s, what’s right in New Zealand?

Darcy Ungaro:
Do you know Peter? I gotta be careful with what I say just in case I’m ruining a friendship here.

Paul Spain:
Oh, I couldn’t possibly call me Darcy.

Darcy Ungaro:
I think it just says something. Right? Like, when when some people become obscenely wealthy, they get more involved in things outside and upwards and just other focused. Whereas other people, when they get extremely wealthy, they kind of go, well, literally, they go underground. You know, they they retreat, and they wanna get closer to the center of the earth. Right? Closer towards the center of gravity, it seems to be. It’s just an interesting kind of I don’t know. Money money amplifies who you already are. Right? Like, if if you if you were a little bit of a rough around the edges sort of fella, let’s put it kindly, then it more money seems to make you more of that type of person.

Darcy Ungaro:
And I’ve I’ve seen a lot of people in business that seem to get away with being that guy, being that, abrasive personality or taking shortcuts and and not treating other people with respect, and it seems to work to a certain point. But you do you do wonder when it kind of all comes back on them and it kinda bites them. And I think so I I I think, yeah, money makes you more of who you already are. That’s that would be one thing I’d say. The other thing is I I I don’t know how much well, I I know you’ve traveled a little bit as well, but we when you travel around New Zealand in particular, it’s quite interesting because there’s pockets of area areas which are fairly remote, really beautiful, picturesque areas, and you kinda feel like there’s just nobody around. And then all of a sudden, you just drive by this gate, which has, you know, there’s security cameras everywhere, and you can tell well manicured right in the middle of nowhere where there’s gorse on the left hand side, and there’s a beautiful paved driveway with marble on the right with gates. And and you know what’s going on. Right? Like, the rest of the world looks at New Zealand as the most beautiful place on Earth, yet the locals don’t.

Darcy Ungaro:
And this is evidence of that, that those with means will buy a piece of New Zealand, and they will make it their little place where they can hunker down and seek protection from the crazy wide world. Yet Kiwis are trying to get out of here. And I and I think that’s fascinating because I’ve I’ve lived here since 86, and and it’s just continual. It’s this continual thing. Like, when I first came here, it was like, why why would you ever wanna be in New Zealand? Yet when you travel around the world or you come from a different perspective, you just realize just how special this place is. And, yeah, acknowledge it’s not not easy sometimes, but where would you rather be in the world that we’re going? Right? So I think these these tech millionaires, all they’re doing is they’re their options and they’re making a rational choice. I wouldn’t necessarily go underground. Well, yes, I would actually, but not that deep.

Darcy Ungaro:
But, yeah, they’re just they’re just being rational, I think.

Paul Spain:
There you go. Alright. Alright. Just being rational. There you go. That’s the yeah. That’s that’s the the the summary of, Darcy’s thoughts on this one. Also from a a local perspective, Spark bringing an AI program to, to New Zealand, businesses that looks really, really interesting.

Paul Spain:
AI for Business Mini MBA, was one of the, one of the references and what, what Spark seemed to across. And it’s called an opportunity for Aotearoa businesses to, you know, build AI, skills and to try and, establish a competitive advantage through a 4 week, program. So they’re offering a 150, sponsored places for their own, Spark customers and other New Zealand business leaders, who will gain access to international AI experts, through a collaboration with Section, which is an education platform founded by NYU Stern professor Scott Galloway. So, yeah, really, really interesting. It’s great to see these sorts of things, going on, the sort of investment to, to support Kiwis. I would imagine, you know, there there could be some some, you know, some really good stuff to, to to come out of this. So, yeah, we’ll we’ll follow, with with interest for, for sure. But, yeah.

Paul Spain:
Good on, yeah. Good on them for, for for this, this investment and, and, you know, sponsoring, you know, a bunch of people who want to, want to get involved. So, yeah, really, we’re we’re really seeing this, you know, this big move on the AI front. But, you know, often, folks sort of get stuck with, you know, how do we get started? What do we do? So, you know, to me, this looks looks really, really interesting.

Darcy Ungaro:
Yeah. It was technology, isn’t it?

Paul Spain:
Darcie? Is this something you’d be you’d be wanting to sign up for if you had a schedule for weeks?

Darcy Ungaro:
Heck, yeah. Well, like, I guess, I I I kinda think anything where there’s any sort of input from, Scott Galloway. I I I saw a presentation from him recently. Like, I think it was a TED Talk. That guy’s that guy’s amazing, just how he can clearly articulate the future in a very matter of fact way. Yeah. But I guess with the thing with AI is that it’s probably just like any any kind of technology to a certain extent. It’s just a different variation of technology, a different flavor of it.

Darcy Ungaro:
And I guess every everybody individually and as a small business and a and a larger business is trying to integrate this tool into how they do things to get efficiencies. And I think that we can kind of I’ll I’ll be working on this ourselves, like, be curious, play around with it ourselves. I know I’ve kind of done that a little bit myself. But then using it to create almost like a production line where you do your job better or you innovate better and you kind of reduce your cost in the process. It’s it’s not that hard to see just why a lot of these tech companies are starting to have amazing results in terms of their share price because you can kinda piece together the logic that, yeah, wow, this is revolutionary technology that when applied to traditional business models can really amplify what’s going on. And so it it makes sense at at so many levels that when you implement this, it’s good. So, yeah, I think any anything that can help people to get their heads around it, giddy up. It’s good.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Yep. And, yeah, we can make New Zealand more competitive on the global stage then, then all the better too. Right? Okay. Now there’s been a bit in the media and and varying places around, and now we look a little bit internationally. Gemini AI, which is is is Google’s, bits and pieces. So if you haven’t, haven’t caught any of that, then, you know, go and have a look. And whether this is sort of images where people are asking for images of, you know, of certain people, in history and it’s come back with, you know, variations on those people that are different races or whether it’s some of the, you know, content and somebody, you know, asks for for certain things and and the, the results are, have have been, you know, quite tilted in a in a particular direction, shall we shall we say.

Paul Spain:
But I think that there’s a reality here that, you know, that that we that we have to understand. And, look. That’s that, you know, technology and output from, you know, from, from AI is always gonna have outside influences, and and that’s gonna come from, you know, where where it’s, you know, where the rules are given to it, but also the content that it draws from across the Internet. So anyone sort of expecting AI to, you know, to be perfect, well, often that’s in the eye of the beholder. Right? And, you know, what what, you know, someone believes is the truth. So, you know, somebody else believes as as as a as a lie. And, you know, often that is, you know, based on sort of, you know, political considerations and and and other things. Darcy, do do you think we need we need versions of the AI tools where you you you choose your particular, leanings, and it gives you a a, a result that sort of aligns with your, you know, your view of the world, your your, you know, your political, bias and and and and so on is you know, is that the answer?

Darcy Ungaro:
I don’t know if that’s the answer or not, but it it’s a fascinating one. Look, I I I I I was trying to create an image and, I can’t remember the name of the tool I was using, but I was I was trying to create an image to reflect that it was a really scary scenario. And so I I put a prompt in. I said who I was, you know, white, middle aged, male. Create a picture of me.

Paul Spain:
You would have been canceled right there, Dasha. I know. Who wouldn’t have got any

Darcy Ungaro:
I already broke a few rules just being being that. But I said create create an image of me hiding in the corner, huddled up in the fetal position, sucking my thumb. Something like that.

Paul Spain:
Yes.

Darcy Ungaro:
A good innocent request. Right?

Paul Spain:
Yeah.

Darcy Ungaro:
And it came back, and I was this, I think I was an African American in that one or and I kept on trying, and I was anything but a white person. I said, why why can’t you make me a white male? And in the end, long story short, it called me racist, and it said the conversation this conversation is over or something like that. It was a rather curt ending to the conversation. I don’t know though if the answer is to have different flavors like with grok on x, you can select fun mode, which we it’s just it’s just a bit goofy. I wouldn’t call it fun. You can kinda get around it with the prompts that you give it just by saying who you are and the perspective that you want.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Darcy Ungaro:
I I think it says something about the operating system that the world has. Like, the world has different operating systems. And I guess if you wanna put this woke label on it, that’s a pretty good name to describe the the operating system that’s probably flavoring a lot of corporate content that goes out there because it it it’s safe, I guess you could say. But if you’re if you’re feeding it garbage to a certain extent, it’s gonna give you a garbage result. If you’re feeding it a bias input, it’s gonna give you all sorts of warped results. And so I don’t know what the solution to that is. Like, how do you go to the source of truth when you’re feeding it through biased creatures to begin with? I don’t know. Like, what

Paul Spain:
what would be the answer? People are gonna have different opinions, different inputs. I remember you did a, couple of episodes on on your podcast of, ask me anything, AI. And, you know, one case, you would, you know, you would train AI in a particular, you know, particular direction. Maybe you’ve given it New Zealand Herald articles or something. Yeah. I can’t remember the the specifics, but, you know, you’d you’d feed in a particular data and you’ve got a particular sort of response back. And then, you know, another one that had, you know, was drawing on a different set of data, and you got a different response. And then, and then after that, you jumped in and and shared your, you know, your own thoughts.

Paul Spain:
And, you know, that sort of, that sort of thing is a good way to, you know, demonstrate, in many ways how, you know, how technology, can work and that we can control and and sort of shape the results we get. Of course, if platforms, you know, do that too much, then those that are, you know, those that are trying to use the platform, then, you know, become constrained. So I guess that’s, you know, that’s the challenge. Do you do you allow the platform to kinda lock themselves, you know, down, to that sort of degree, or do you just draw on what’s, you know, generally available and not kinda, you know, blocked content in terms of what’s what’s broadly available on the Internet, in varying ways. And then, you know, people can sort of steer in in a direction from there.

Darcy Ungaro:
Do do you feel like, though, that maybe, like, the natural progression of how these platforms work is that they’re not necessarily decentralized platforms where we go to and then we use it for some sort of thing, but it’s more something that we can download and customize on our own end so much so that we could feed it the selected data. Like, when I was doing those podcasts, I was basically yeah. You’re right. I was I was effectively feeding it, Mary Holmes article articles and and that style of financial advice, and then asking it a question. Right? But wouldn’t it be cool if you in the area of your specialty or me in the area of my special specialty could train our own AI agents on our own unique stuff. And then that’s the model

Paul Spain:
that we’re hearing. Can, and that that is something that you can do that you can do right now, you know, to even tools like Microsoft, Copilot. Yeah. There’s a long name. Microsoft Copilot for Microsoft 36 5. You know, with with that, it’s accessing your data in SharePoint, and you can ask it, you know, a question across all of your documents and so on. Or you can

Darcy Ungaro:
ask it to

Paul Spain:
work now though? And that’s that’s available now. Yeah. Yeah. And and that will draw data out of your, you know, that that would draw data out of your, you know, your your existing, and that’s effectively what you’re training the AI on. So then you can ask questions or say, you know, based based on our, you know, our information, our findings, and and documentation, you know, write me this or that recommendation.

Darcy Ungaro:
Have you played around with that more?

Paul Spain:
Yeah. A little a little bit. There there’s you know, I’ve I guess I’ve got a few ideas in my in my mind of of where, you know, I’d like to see my company go on on some of these things. So, you know, we have we’d lagged some foundations, for that and, you know, experimenting in in different ways. Look. I I think the, you know, the potential for for using AI, within businesses, you know, it’s absolutely phenomenal. But but it’s these kind of oddities and risks and challenges that are, you know, that also we have to we have to take into account. And, well, I think there was the example we we were talking of, on the la in the last few weeks around, might have been near Canada, actually.

Paul Spain:
Your, your old national carrier there, Darcy.

Darcy Ungaro:
They they’re the ones that dropped me off here.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Okay. They drop you off. Wouldn’t take you home.

Darcy Ungaro:
That’s right.

Paul Spain:
Alright. We’re we’re stuck with it, I suppose. But, yeah, they they had a AI chatbot that was doing customer service, and it gave, you know, incorrect advice to somebody. And then the court sort of, you know, put it on, on Air Canada to, to have to, you know, front up and and and pay for their mistake, at least to some degree. I I think I’m remembering the airline, correctly there. But, so yeah. So so yeah. There’s there’s there’s a lot going on here, and, you know, it is it’s important that we get up with the play.

Paul Spain:
It’s important that we’re experimenting with the technology that we get to understand it so, you know, we can minimize the, you know, the the problems and and get to where those those benefits are. And if we if we get that right, if we move fast enough, if we move at a faster pace to other countries, you know, this gives New Zealand, you know, that leg up, you know, on a on a global basis to to be moving ahead at a at a faster, speed, which which obviously benefits Kiwis, disadvantages the rest of the world if you if you wanna look at it from a globalist perspective. But, you know, I think generally there’s there’s there’s good outcomes from, you know, smart and appropriate use of AI.

Darcy Ungaro:
Well, do you think that’s the that’s the competitive advantage then is to be bold enough to apply AI differently? Because, obviously, just like anything else in a in a global community, you can’t think of something that somebody else hasn’t already thought of effectively. Right? So how would New Zealand, for example, use AI as as in its tool belt as something that gives it its competitive edge?

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Look, you know, I think I think it’s it’s, yeah, obviously in a in a, in a place, you know, right now where where it’s really exciting, where I, you know, I think there is growing understanding of the benefits that can can, you know, provide, you know, compared to to other technologies. And in some cases, it’s quite significant. So, yeah, the I mean, the the opportunities, there for us are significant if we can, you know, if we can get get these things right. Of course, how do you judge whether you’ve, you know, you’ve got it right or not and and whether you’ve, you know, used it in unique and innovative ways? But, you know, I think we’d we’d certainly look back historically. You know, kiwis have that that sort of like, what we used to call or some of us still call it kiwi ingenuity. You know, we’ve got that, that creative ability. You know, there there there are some things around, you know, how New Zealand is, where we are, and and our, you know, population scale and and and people that, means that, you know, I think we do have some good opportunities.

Paul Spain:
So, yeah. Let’s let’s let’s get cracking. Let’s get moving on these, these things. So, you know, I mean, look looking at Spark’s announcement and and things that other companies are doing, you know, I’m I’m really, you know, keen to see what the, what the outputs are and what the results are. Yeah. Now interesting article, in terms of in the local media recently. This was what Stuff published was the title of leaked files from Chinese firm show vast international hacking effort. And it it it delved into some of the, you know, Chinese sort of state, linked or state sponsored, you know, hacking and and so on.

Paul Spain:
You know, this was a particular example looking at, data that I think files that had come from from GitHub. But we just don’t see many of these sorts of news stories, you know, hitting the mainstream media. And, yeah, just why I thought, you know, it’s important that we that we keep our, eyes open and, you know, often these things are are in are in much more kinda niche media outlets that, that cover them. But, you know, once they do get get picked up and and, you know, and recognized and and, you know, and publicized, you know, I think they provide, you know, pretty important insights and and, you know, highlights, you know, the the important, you know, a, for organizations to be very, you know, very careful from a cyber security and a and a data, privacy, perspective, but to understand that there, you know, there is a difference between what what goes on, you know, in some of the regimes around the world, compared to to what might happen, you know, within, say, you know, New Zealand and and other democratic countries. And I’m not saying what what we do and what America do is, is is always perfect, but, you know, far far from it. But, yeah, I I think there’s a there’s a level here on, on this sort of, you know, cyber cybercrime that is, you know, is is quite shocking once you, once you delve into to to some of the the realities. And I guess when you when you look at the the laws in in some countries versus others, you see it as very much tilted, in a in a direction that, is is not necessarily about treating others well. Put it that way.

Darcy Ungaro:
Can you can you I’m curious about this. Like, can can you just share me some of some of your insights being in the tech world? Like, I would think about hacking as just these mysterious shadowy super coders in the in the bottom of mom’s basement doing all these evil, conniving things. But we’re talking about nation states now sponsoring or initiating or organizing these efforts, aren’t we? And so, like, from your perspective, at what what stage is it beyond the realms of just good IT security protocols and that and it’s actually more, hey. This is something that our own country should actually be way more active in. Do you think, like, New Zealand, for example, is is actually proactive enough in this space, or are they just kinda leaving it up to the businesses to kind of small to medium sized enterprises sort of sort out themselves?

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Great great question. Look. I think it’s really hard to get to get this sort of stuff right. How much do you, you know, do you get the government, to do and to invest in, especially as a small country with a with a smaller, you know, economy? You know, these these things are challenging. In terms of what New Zealand has traditionally, invested when it when it comes to, you know, cybercrime type type things and and protection. Yeah. I think that there’s probably a reasonably broad feeling, you know, within within the cybersecurity, space that, that we could, you know, we we could do a lot more.

Paul Spain:
We can invest invest a lot more. But look, there’s always, you know, so many pressures on a government. Do we put money into health? Do we put it into, you know, schools? Do we do we put it into, you know, military and and peacekeeping, you know, type things and roads. And and and so it’s a very very hard, you know, it’s a very hard ask because you will never you’ll never please everybody with these things. And it’s really hard to predict what will be the impact if if our investment is too low today. How will that play out over the next 5, 10, 20, 30 years? Now if if we get it sort of significantly wrong, all our best IP and our best inventions could ends up could end up, in the hands of a foreign power, and that would leave us, you know, potentially as a very, very poor, state. But, you know, you you you flip it too far in in the other direction, and, you know, you you’re always looking over your back, and you don’t create anything. And, you know, nothing happens either.

Paul Spain:
And you spend all your money, so you can’t invest back into education and health and and and so on. Now I’m I’m not saying that our that our cyber investments are, you know, are at those sort of extreme levels, but it it is always that, that balance. And, you know, look, I I think the, you know, the this, approach to to continually growing government investment on this front is is really helpful. So yeah. Yeah.

Darcy Ungaro:
Yeah. No. I think I think, like, China is directly and indirectly our biggest trading partner. So no doubt there’s some degree of a conflict of interest higher up in the political realms as well. And so I think that’s something that, at the very least, people like you and me should be making a little bit of noise about. So

Paul Spain:
Mhmm.

Darcy Ungaro:
Because, I’m not sure if if but good on good on your stuff for kind of talking about that, but I I think we need to see a little bit more, investigative journalism in that space. Probably wouldn’t hurt.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. And in Australia, we see a, a minister for, for cybersecurity as well. So that’s something that New Zealand hasn’t, you know, hasn’t got. There’s not been another a formal, role for that, but, you know, obviously, it does does sit under other things. You know, I do I do wonder, you know, about that, whether we’ve got to create, you know, more, more portfolios that that are somewhat more sort of tick, you know, tech, aligned and, and and, you know, cybersecurity would make sense to me as as a portfolio in in some regards, but, yeah, also get the challenges of having, you know, dozens and dozens of, portfolios and, you know, candidate ministers and so on so that these you know, we’ve only got so many so many people in, in parliament to sort of spread these things around with, you know, and you often end up with a small number of people with all sorts of, you know, portfolio. So, you know, you wonder you wonder how that plays out.

Darcy Ungaro:
I think it’s more of a defense thing. Got the Navy, Air Force, land, army, digital space. Right? You know what I mean?

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Yeah.

Darcy Ungaro:
Anyway.

Paul Spain:
So yep. So, just a just a just a little word in there for, government officials and, ministers and so on, listening in, or not.

Darcy Ungaro:
Or the Chinese government.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. The Chinese government get in while you No. I’m not gonna encourage it. Right. Where where where where we? Little bit of news on the Apple front. I guess, you know, one that we’ve we’ve heard sort of, you know, bubbling away over, you know, quite a period of years, has has been, that, you know, we’ve understood that Apple have been, you know, working, away on, you know, I guess, sort of semi secret plans to develop autonomous electric, vehicles. And, you know, rumors sort of suggested you know, investment in the sort of 10,000,000,000 US dollar, range or or or more potentially there, which is, you know, has been quite fascinating to follow. But, we’re told that those those plans have come to, an end and, that nothing is proceeding.

Paul Spain:
And in fact, that those that were were involved in this, effort, you know, have been, have been laid off, although those those roles have been, have been stopped. So there have been varying, you know, bits and pieces of coverage over time on this. But, yeah, really interesting to see see it, come to an end. And I think there’s probably all sorts of conclusions that you might might come to around, you know, just how hard developing, this, you know, this type of technology is and the challenges of of, you know, getting into to the market, and and, yeah, how how how hard it would be to compete against, you know, some very innovative, you know, Chinese firms such as, BYD, Build Your Dreams, you know, and of and, of course, Tesla, and then the rest of the auto market, you know, the traditional players that have generally been struggling, with their with their EV sales. So, you know, the future looks, looks looks very Chinese, on one hand and, and and Tesla, on the other hand in terms of, in terms of the, you know, the dominance from certainly from a tech and innovation standpoint, it doesn’t mean the others aren’t selling, vehicles. Although, you know, the the numbers, you know, are pretty challenging. And, you know, if you look across across the companies, yeah, the the stats in a lot of cases look, you know, look look pretty rough. And, you know, even even Tesla, they’re, you know, the the share price hasn’t, you know, hasn’t really done, you know, too much over the over the last, you know, 2 2 2 or 3 years.

Paul Spain:
So, yeah, I thought that was that was fascinating. Had that’s something that’s been on been on your radar? You know, Equinor been one of the biggest stocks, isn’t it, from an Yeah. Yeah. Investor interest perspective over the last, you know, 3 to 3 years?

Darcy Ungaro:
Yeah. And I think, probably similar to what we’re seeing with Bitcoin right now when the price of Tesla really, really started going nuts a couple years back, people started kicking themselves thinking that they missed the opportunity without realizing that, you know, like, with any emerging technology, there’s always tremendous volatility, and there’s always usually another opportunity to get on usually when we have more information as well. So the investment actually becomes safer, and there becomes another hop on point later on in the future. But what’s happening right now, I think, that I’ve been watching in the EV space and and probably, I guess, in the vehicle space combined is this general trend. And I think it’s kinda getting caught up in this anti woke movement that seems to be growing as well. This general trend to kind of push back against EVs and and this suspicion or this paranoia that there’s some sort of cunning evil plot to, take away petrol from from our our engines, right, and just make everybody drive EVs and we’ll own nothing and be happy and eat crickets. And I think that, unfortunately, that’s kind of almost pushing back on on EV sales. And and and you’re an EV driver, so am I.

Darcy Ungaro:
I I think that the best thing ever, not necessarily for for the environment, but just from a performance point of view. You don’t have an issue on the on February 29th trying to refuel your your Tesla. Right? It’s just, you just plug it in and it works. So, like, I think the ultimately, the the technology is great, and it’s a shame to see that there’s a a bit of a pushback. So I wonder if Apple is is kind of seeing that, and they’re thinking, no. This $10,000,000,000 investment isn’t a good idea, which is mind blowing. But there’s a bit of that. But then there’s also the general economic slowdown, which appears to be happening globally.

Darcy Ungaro:
And the first thing that’s gonna be cut off that list is discretionary purchases, big ticket items like vehicles, which we’ve all been going on a binge on in the last few years. So that’s come to an end. And so I just wonder if maybe that convergence of those two things, an economic slowdown and this general distaste of lithium in in the mouth, maybe that’s kind of

Paul Spain:
I wouldn’t be eating.

Darcy Ungaro:
Leading to it. You know?

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Yeah. No. That’s, that’s, yeah, really really good, good thoughts there, Darcy.

Darcy Ungaro:
Yeah. Thank you very much. I try.

Paul Spain:
We probably could delve deeply, deeply into the subject and and, but but we won’t this time this time around, because, yeah, I can think of a whole lot of different directions there. But, you know, of course, we’ve talked about the the AI, the autonomous driving side as as well. And, you know, the you know, clearly, this wasn’t looking as easy for, for for Apple for them to, have exited. Also on the Apple front, just just news has, has has come in, you know, today prior to to recording around, Apple announcing their new M3, MacBook is, 2 variants of 13 inch and and, and 15 inch. Probably the the most obvious sort of, difference now is that these, M3, based based MacBook Ears are now supporting, 2 external monitors. So, it was always head head scratching to me that, Apple was releasing, you know, MacBooks that didn’t didn’t support multiple monitors. Even though for me, I’m usually docking to a single large sort of 49 inch, you know, ultra widescreen. So it it’s kind of like, well, that works.

Paul Spain:
But if you wanted to do the same with 2 monitors, which is, you know, traditionally a lot cheaper, then sorry. But they’ve, they’ve addressed that, which is is good. And look. The thing that stands out for me about the, you know, the m one, the m two, the m three, you know, MacBooks has been, that impressive, not just the performance, you know, from a from a processing perspective, but the impressive, battery performance. And, you know, I’ll go into a meeting sometimes with with a, you know, colleague. And if they’re on Windows and I’m using my, the the MacBook, you know, guarantee I’m I’m gonna get you know, it doesn’t matter what Windows machine they’ve got. I’m gonna get at least twice the twice the battery life. So, it is it is it’s it’s pretty outstanding.

Paul Spain:
So, Apple are highlighting that, the the MacBook Air is now the the top, laptop in the world. I don’t know. You know, I didn’t delve in deep into, you know, how long that they claim that’s been the case for and and and so on. You know? But, yeah, it would, it would stack up, but, that’s that’s, you know, probably the point they’ve got to. So, well done, Apple. And, yeah, I know it was a few years ago. You know, I was I was, you know, I guess picking on Apple a little bit for for how slow they were to to release iterations of, of some of the Mac products, but they’ve, you know, they’ve broadly stepped that up and delivering, you know, some incredibly, you know, superb product into the into the market now. So, you know, it’s still waiting on Microsoft to get there with with a a good ARM based, you know, Windows, device and, and the software kinda working working well, although that that’s been iterated on in the background in recent years.

Paul Spain:
You’ve been tempted to move to, to Mac there, Darcy?

Darcy Ungaro:
Not at all. My my my wife is, is inflicted with the MacBook, and I just I just stand back and just look at all the issues that she has, trying to figure it out, how to plug it into a PC world for all the other applications that she wants to run. And, I don’t know. I I can’t get my head around it. It’s like, I don’t know. I don’t know. You know how there’s there’s there’s always 2 groups of people. Right? And I just happen to be in that group, not that group.

Darcy Ungaro:
I just can’t. I can’t do it.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I I I definitely try and, you know, use a use a range of, you know, range of technology. But, you know, that battery life thing has, you know, has has put me out of out of Kildare in terms of, you know, you know, I can’t say I’m I’m a I’m a 5050 balance between Windows and, and and Mac use, for, you know, for the last couple of years. So, and and it’s largely because of, you know, because of, you know, just how battery efficient, they are. And you just, you know, you get very used to that very quickly. So

Darcy Ungaro:
And that’s all down to the like, that’s all down to the actual processing. Right? Like, the chips they’re using?

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Because they they you know, it’s their own that’s their own silicon and, you know, that was a very canny acquisition that they, you know, they did going back how many years it it is now, and, you know, acquiring, you know, a a firm that was designing and and and building their own, their own chips. And, look. That’s you know, what it would be very interesting to look back on. I think the acquisition was you know, this is just off the top of my head and the, you know, 100 of 1,000,000 of of US dollars at the time, and it was you know, it I should be curious to, to see what we we said with the acquisition. But I, you know, I don’t think, anybody could have joined up the the dots to, you know, just, you know, how many times their their return would be on that, on that investment. Yeah, obviously, every iPhone, you know, today, which is is such a large percentage of their revenue, you know, is based on on those, those chips that they they they design. But it’s, you know, it’s right across the board, you know, including with their, their their spatial, computing tech.

Paul Spain:
So, yeah. Well, that brings us to the end of, of this episode. So thanks everyone for joining us on the New Zealand Tech podcast. Thank you, Darcy. Great to have you on the show, and, of course, thank you to our show partners, Gorilla Technology, HP, Spark, 2 Degrees, and 1 NZ. Darcy, where do people go if they’re kinda curious and thinking, oh, there’s kind of a a techy futurist, investment adviser out there. This is what we need. Where would where would they go to find you, and, where did they find the podcast?

Darcy Ungaro:
Yeah. Just just look for the the white middle aged male crying in the corner sucking his thumb, who looks like an African American, of course. But, no, look on Spotify. Look on YouTube, The Everyday Investor with Darcy Ungaro. Twitter Ungaro. Darcy is my name. And, yeah, be glad to see you there.

Paul Spain:
Excellent. Alright. Well, thanks, everyone. We’ll catch you on the next episode. See you.