Paul Spain:
Hey, folks. Greetings and welcome along to the New Zealand Tech podcast. I'm your host, Paul Spain. And today, we have Peter Ellington, head of pricing and engineering at Singer Electric joining us. Peter, great to have you joining the show.

Peter Allington:
Hi, Paul. Thanks for having me.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Real pleasure. Now, today, we've we've actually got an episode. We're sort of delving into The tech news of the week, looking at some things sort of New Zealand related and global. But for those who are wondering who's Singer Electric and a little bit about yourself, Maybe just tell folks where where you, fit into this sort of big wide world of, you know, technology, and so on in New Zealand.

Peter Allington:
Yeah. Thanks. We're, so we've been around for 70 years. We've been around 8 years in the in the charger space and upgrading Client's infrastructure to to transition from the, ice vehicles to the electric vehicles. So Part of that, I run our engineering and pricing team, and we work closely with clients to really get that transition to, yeah, to to meet their electrical needs, really.

Paul Spain:
Yep. And I and I guess that the, you know, the the role of sort of electrifying transport is is very much, about sort of, you know, a a technology and and innovation, thing as as, you know, We're having to do new things and, you know, obviously, you and and your team have been going from, you know, starting with, I guess, electric, you know, cars, now going up to much, much bigger things, which which we've got a separate episode that we will we will delve into, in terms of electrifying the ferries. Well, let's jump into the the tech news of the week. There's, there's a lot going on. We've got the international players, you know, continue to, I guess, sorta, you know, stir up trouble at times, and then sometimes it's, it's the government that's stirring things up. But, you know, we've been reading sort of that, you know, Google had been responding, to to the government on this news bargaining bill. And, you know, we all know we go online whether it's social media or, you know, searching on Google, and we get bits and pieces of news. And there just seems to be the sort of backwards and forwards around, well, you know, who's benefiting here? Is it of more benefit to the consumer? Or is it, you know, is it benefit to the, the news media publishers or is it more benefit to the sort of social networks and the and and the Googles? And there does seem to be a, you know, fair Fair bit of, debate.

Paul Spain:
I think, you know, we've seen different countries, Australia, Canada, and so on sort of move in in terms of putting in legislation that that says, hey, Facebook. If you're gonna put, you know, news up, on on your your site that pulls headlines and things from media, then, then you gotta front up and pay for that. Even when on the flip side, you know, if anyone likes that and they click on it, then that's feeding traffic directly to that news outlet, you know, which which significantly benefits the news outlets that are featured. And, Of course, we've, you know, we've seen the these moves. We're we're in, you know, some, some situations. News has been removed from, from, you know, from a a social media platform like like Facebook, because they're like, well, it's It's not really worth anything to us. We, you know, we we don't make people, and and to a degree, it draws people away from their platforms when they go and click, click on it. So, yeah, it's just interesting to see this stuff coming back, and and that's kind of a a level of what we're hearing from, you know, from Google, is that it you know, has they're they're kind of saying, hey.

Paul Spain:
This isn't really something that that it generates for for them. But, of course, we we We see others like Australia that have gone before us. So, yeah, it's it's, I think, something we we we continue to follow. And I think it it's It's challenging in terms of where where the different where you might think the the the balance lands. It's, you know, I guess, you know, similar to The the challenges in terms of working out how do, you know, how do we tax these big multinational companies, the Amazons and Googles and, Facebooks and so on of this world. And and, you know, there have been moves to put extra taxes on them, but In in most cases, those things just come back on, you know, say, the New Zealand advertisers that are that are maybe advertising or or doing things on these platforms as they just throw the the tax back to Cost of money. New Zealand anyway. So it it's it doesn't, you know, necessarily benefit anyone.

Paul Spain:
Do you spend much time on social media, or how you know, how do you get your news? Are you someone that sort of stumbles upon it in in social media or on Google?

Peter Allington:
Or No. You just go direct to the Yeah. To the news media source, really. I I'm not that big on social media. Yeah. And so, yeah, I just go to the To the main whatever the whatever the source is, really. Yeah.

Paul Spain:
Yep. They're not something that that that you, you know, You you you see necessarily. Now one of the one of the other, things is in terms of, Local news, we've we've been hearing about Marlborough District Council have, have have put out some information about this, Real time, guidance age for, mariners, those going out on the water of the Torrey Torrey Channel. And, you know, what they're what they're calling sort of groundbreaking, visual aid that provides real time guidance, for mariners on on what's happening with sort of the currents and, and and the the tides there. So that's, you know, that's landed on their, their website. Is this Is this sort of a big deal or do you know, is this the sort of thing we expect our councils to be, you know, just to be staying up with the play and and and helping out with?

Peter Allington:
Yeah. I think so. I think Anything to improve health and safety, you know, on the water. It's gotta be helpful, especially using the technology that's available, you know, AI and And the processing power around that, more councils, the better, really, should be looking into that.

Paul Spain:
Yep. And this is you know, really relates to The movement between the North Island and the South Island, isn't it? That's that's what the Tory Channel is is that, that movement. So, Yeah. I look. I I haven't, delved in, you know, too deeply to what the what the challenges are, but, you know, I think, Yeah. For anyone that's that that's that's been across there on a time where where it gets a bit rough or, you know, whatnot, that sort of information is is helpful. And, yeah, we we, you know, we we still see with all the technology available to us today, you know, people getting into trouble, you know, on the water. So, You know, I think, you know, making the information available that that helps sorta lower the lower those risks.

Paul Spain:
And, Yeah. Yeah. Especially for those who maybe wouldn't necessarily get access, you know, to that data so easily. I'd you know, I think if you're, you know, running a Cook Strait theory or something like that, then, you know, you can afford to tap into the the very best of information, but it when it comes to others, that that might not be so easy. Although when yeah. I think some of the information they they shared around this, they call it the Tide and Current project. It was actually funded with a quarter $1,000,000 from KiwiRail. So that was given to council.

Paul Spain:
So, yeah, really interesting. So, obviously, there there is Actually, an element here where where this, you know, broader investment will be used at that that sort of level right through. And, of course, Well, you know, we have continued to see incidences involving the, you know, the the the fairies. And, yeah, I think that this one, actually was, sort of imposed, on on KiwiRail following an accident that that they had in, in in 2019, that, yeah, they they had to invest back in.

Peter Allington:
I mean, it makes sense. You know? It's kind of the next iteration of, You know, charts and GPS and using all the info information available and putting it in one sort of place for For safety, they could use it all around the country. Mhmm.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how it how it plays out. They're working with the, Company Oceanum, yeah, who've done the done the the r and d, all the sort of mathematical models and and and built the, the the visual elements and and, and and aspects of the technology. So yeah. Hopefully hopefully, this this plays out, well and, you know, I think if you, you know, if you kind of look back through history, often technology has played a, you know, has played a, you know, a key role, when it when it comes to, you know, reducing how many how many people are impacted by accidents, the accidents that kinda can can happen in different areas. And, yeah. Hopefully, this is this is something that we we see, less dramas out on the, on the the Tory Channel. And, other other things going on.

Paul Spain:
There's some sort of pretty big big happenings on the, you know, on the the global, front. Apple, in the new in the news again. You know, we're now in this world where, Apple have moved to USB C charging across their their newest, phones. And that that's kind of I guess, the the the next phase in this sort of, pressure that the European Union Has been putting on Apple, is Apple are now, basically gonna allow rival app stores on iPhones and Ipads, which just seems like massive news because there's only been, you know, one one way to get you Your apps on your devices and that as a, you know, as a headline thing just seems like, wow. Yeah. That's That's that's it's gonna be a huge disruption to Apple's revenue streams and and so on. When you delve into it, of course, the the The story is somewhat more more complicated, also allowing different browser engines. But because this is being limited to The EU, what it creates is a situation where you can imagine that A lot of a lot of entities just might, you know, might not bother or it might be,

Peter Allington:
you

Paul Spain:
know, it might be too hard. Is it worth launching an App Store when it only targets, you know, a a minority of the the population of Apple users. And, you know, we've heard this with, around Firefox that, you know, they they, Yeah. They're a non nonprofit entity, you know, but behind them, Mozilla Foundation. And, you know, they've said, look. You know? This this is a real challenge. It's really expensive to, you know, develop an app. And if they're going to take advantage of these sorta latest rulings, now they've got to develop 2.

Paul Spain:
They've got to develop the one that that uses, you know, the the Apple, browser technology in in the back end and then one that that uses theirs, that's only gonna go to a minority of users. So, a little bit complicated and, not as, not as not as simple as what we've seen with this nudge for USB C, charging that's, you know, obviously had a had a global impact and and will help make, You know, I think life easier for for a lot of people in a very, very small way, but it does it does make a difference. It makes life Simpler. Yeah. It does. And and we'll probably have a conversation when we delve into talking about, vehicle charging and and, you you know, charging of of electric boats and so on around, you know, the the opportunity to sort of standardize, in those areas, too because there's been a lot of work going on. But probably the the the bigger, story that's that's attracting a lot of interest On on YouTube and the like is the Apple Vision Pro, which is has, has landed. So we're seeing those, you know, initial Reviews and and and demonstration, videos being being shared online and millions and millions of views, as Apple have, you know, finally, you know, got to got to, the point where their, foray into what they're calling spatial computing and what probably the rest of us would call VR headsets, you know, has has arrived.

Paul Spain:
Look. It looks like really nice hardware, which is what we expect from Apple. Really nice, you know, equipment. Starting price of of what is it? Over 3a half 1000, you you US dollars. And then like with your your iPhones and other things, it's you want the 256? Do you want the 512 or the 1 terabyte model? So, you know, all of those things sort of bump it up more. But, you know, when you look at Apple Apple's Play, it looks as though, you know, they've they've delivering something that Leans into, you know, their their success when it comes to creating an ecosystem.

Peter Allington:
Mhmm.

Paul Spain:
You know, some really, really great software. Their when it comes to developing really nice, you know, premium, hardware. And and so, yeah, you end up with a with a very, very nice product, a very high price point. And one of the questions, which is, inevitably comes, is Is there the killer app? You know? What's the thing that's gonna make it worthwhile? I guess, worth talking in New Zealand terms, we you know, we were looking around, you know, $6,000, when we talk about, you know, con converting that, and you got GST in there and so on. So it's a It's a chunky purchase, not actually even available outside of the US anyway, so it's a little bit of a, a moot point. What are your thoughts? You know, I noticed, you came in. You you're wearing your Apple Watch. You're, you know, you got your your iPhone there.

Paul Spain:
So you're within the Apple, ecosystem. Yep. What what are your thoughts? Is this is this the next, thing that that you have to have, Just yet? Or are you someone that sort of would would sit back and and and and watch a bit, see what happens?

Peter Allington:
I think I'd sit back and and See what happens. $6,000 to me is is a bit on the steep end. And, yeah, what the what can you use it for at the moment? You know? Is it just for gaming, or is there other applications as well that you could you could use it for? So it's an interesting piece of kit. I'm sure in the future, it might be, yeah, used for for some great things, but not sure currently.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. And and this this question get asked you know, often gets asked, is there a killer app that makes this the the the the thing that you should, that you should buy. And and it's in some ways, it's a valid question. But in And, otherwise, when, you know, when I I look at technology, some technologies don't necessarily have that that killer app For certainly for, you know, for everyone. But when you put together all the little, you know, all the little bits and pieces, some probably Bigger and more important than others. You know, you you eventually get to a point where, yeah, for some people that, that is the piece of technology that they want that they want. Your Apple Watch, for instance, I mean, is there anything that super excites you around your your Apple Watch, or is it it's just something that's a a a step up on a On analog tech?

Peter Allington:
I think it was more around the the sort of health apps that you can get and links to your phone. That's kinda what attracted me to that. Yeah. So, that I don't know if that can be somehow relatable back to this VR piece of kit.

Paul Spain:
But Well, interesting. One of the videos that was shared online, and this might I'm trying to remember if it was Marcus Brownlee's one, and, he was Playing, table tennis, with with the VR headset on, and and it was more to sort of demonstrate, because it it it does completely enclose your eyes. You know? You cannot see, you know, you cannot see through it. So it's not, you know, an augmented reality in the traditional sense, but it will it's got cameras and on, and it will pass the video back Mhmm. And a very small delay, I think, 12, you know, 12 milliseconds. So, you know, you you're talking just, you know, a little little bit Over what's that? Hun you know, a hundredth of a of a of a second in terms of its delay. So it it it's very fast. And, yeah, he was able to sort of successfully, you know, play, play a game of of of table tennis.

Paul Spain:
So there are, you know, just yeah. So many possibilities with how this could play out. You get used to that. And then, You know, what about another variation where the person you're playing with you know, maybe you played with them yesterday. You wanna have another game with them, but the technology is So good that it can it can generate it. So from your perspective, there is there is no difference because it's, you know, the video, everything sort of virtualized. Now not that they've got that capability today, but, you know, join the dots It's up to, you know, what are those possibilities. And then if you're, yeah, really into a particular, sport and, you know, you're comfortable wearing a A headset while you're doing it, whether it's out jogging, would you wear 1 when you're riding a riding a bike down the street on the road? I mean, there's all sorts of

Peter Allington:
Yeah.

Paul Spain:
Possibilities as to How bad that could be or possibilities of how with a, you know, augmented vision, you know, maybe that could help and a built in kinda, you know, AI level trainer who's, I guess, drawn from data of performance coaches that are training At, an Olympic or an all black type level and so on, it might be like, oh, yeah. I'd I'd do it right, but that's gonna be probably quite unique to an individual in terms of What are the things that would, that would push you across those lines? One of the other examples that was mentioned, and it and it might have been on the same one, was trying to use a a laptop on an airplane. You know, you got someone right next to you who's looking at the screen. You might have confidential things. You might just prefer, privacy of whatever you're doing and, you can, you know, you can use the, Apple Vision Pro, you know, connected to say MacBook, And, you can be, working away using your keyboard and and trackpad on the MacBook and viewing your screen as kind of as large as you want within your headset. Mhmm. So there's quite, you know, quite a lot of possibilities in terms of, you know, how it can be used.

Peter Allington:
Yeah. And I think another one would be potentially with in construction with BIM three d modeling. So

Paul Spain:
Building information management Yeah. Technology.

Peter Allington:
So you build what's gonna be built within a computer model. And then you put all the different elements in and to be able to stand on-site and see the real world, but also see the model, and to ensure that things are getting put in the right position could be a really helpful tool as well.

Paul Spain:
Yep. And, look, I'd sort of like to sit down with people face to face and so on. We're we're we're we're sitting, you know, next to each other around the table here. Do you foresee a world where we would wear something like this and you would create that experience that as as though you're in a room with someone? Or is that do you think that's just dreaming to imagine that we would, you know, that we would do that and feel that that's as as good as being with somebody in person? What do you think?

Peter Allington:
I don't know. I think, you know, we've got teams at the moment or, you know, video calling. Yep. You don't quite have that connection. Yeah. So I don't think you'll ever beat the face Face sitting at a table. But who knows? I mean, you might be able to get that same sort of, feel out of that VR, but

Paul Spain:
A step a step closer, mate.

Peter Allington:
A step closer. Yeah.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Yeah. But it's not not not quite the same as being able to, you know I don't know. The, virtual coffees and, you know, and and whatnot. Quite not quite the same.

Peter Allington:
A virtual beer is definitely not the same.

Paul Spain:
Yes. Well, it'll be it'll be really interesting to see how it plays out. Look. This is, you know, this is v one for for Apple. It it always does disappoint me, you know, somewhat when when our big tech vendors sort of launch in the US market And and the rest of the world sort of sits back a little bit. And, yeah, at at this point, it's not the sort of thing that's that's Tempted me to, you know, jump on a plane and fly to the States and and, and buy 1 on launch day, but I would certainly love To, love to have a play with the technology and, look, recommend for anyone that's, you know, that's at all interested and curious, you know, look up some of these videos that are online. It is, it is fascinating and, look. When when Apple get into something, know, they usually get into it big, and they usually keep, keep iterating.

Paul Spain:
Mhmm. And and, you know, when you look at sort of the price and and the scale of, of, yeah, Apple's fans. Yeah. You can imagine that even this initial release is, you know, multibillions in terms of the revenue that it generates. And, you know, look. They're looking for that long term, you know, playoffs. So if we look back to the, you know, the first iPhone, Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Spain:
Probably probably not that exciting these days, but it was a really important part of the journey. And And, you know, it took people buying it and giving feedback and and so on, for for there to be, you know, better and better iterations. So, yeah. Good to, good to follow that one and and and see how Apple go. And look. I think there'll be people on probably, You know, both extremes and everywhere in between from, you know, this this is, you know, just a complete waste of money through, to people that that that absolutely, love it. But I imagine it's gonna be it's gonna be a a smaller kind of niche audience at at this stage that are gonna be, you know, jump jumping in. Also sort of on the global front, but but relevant here in New Zealand.

Paul Spain:
Microsoft have formed, all these different copilots that they've been launching just to, you know, confuse, absolutely all of us are in what's what's going on. They had their kind of, mini start with their copilot for for The three six five Microsoft 365. Late last year, they have, have now sort of completed the, availability, I suppose, and now anybody can can get that. Interesting to note though, maybe Microsoft are a little bit scared That folks won't love Copilot for 365 because from what I'm seeing, you have to buy it on an annual basis, which is is very unusual in the in this world of cloud subscriptions. I mean, it's not it's not completely, you know, Unusual. There are some vendors that that's your only option is to buy annually, but most of Microsoft's things, you've been able to buy on a month by month basis. And It sort of feels like they're hoping over the next 12 months, they're gonna iterate enough, and people are gonna experiment with it enough, that they will, they will stay with them, but that if people just had it month to month, that after a month, a bunch of people might Actually, just cancel. Mhmm.

Paul Spain:
So I think, you know, at this stage, it's something that's that that maybe, yeah, they're they're hoping will grow on people. And over time as more people use it and and, and and figure out its, its role Yeah. That it will it will come come into play. So, yeah, interesting to see. I think it's around, in the sort of 600, dollars or or also, you know, price here, in New Zealand. So you imagine you know, that's a fair commitment. You got, you know, so I've got a team of about 15 people. So, you know, to to give that across the board to a team, that's a $10,000 commitment.

Paul Spain:
So, you know, people are gonna wanna return on on on that investment, investment. And I think, you know, some absolutely will, and that will be an easy decision to make for for certain team members. Other organizations will will, You know, we'll get that, I'm sure, across the board. Mhmm. And, other organizations I talked to are just completely uninterested. So, Yeah. I'm very very curious to see how it evolves and and, you know, how how organizations in New Zealand end up, Yeah. Leveraging these these technologies, in in all its form whether it's, you know, writing an email, for you, which it jumps in and, you know, asks you when you've got an email as to, you know, have, give it some direction to write a response.

Paul Spain:
And it will write those Sponsors through the, you know, writing up documents for you, designing, and and creating presentations in PowerPoint or, you You know, capturing a a team's meeting and then, you know, telling you the

Peter Allington:
Mhmm.

Paul Spain:
The the action points at at the end, which, you know, is is, you know, probably a pretty pretty good use case?

Peter Allington:
Yeah.

Paul Spain:
As long as it doesn't encourage people to sort of switch off and and and miss a lot of important stuff that might happen in a in a meeting. Yep. Is that, something that sort of, you know, caught caught your attention? That's what's happening on the on the AI front as far as the work you do?

Peter Allington:
Oh, we definitely see a lot more of it. Yeah. It does make, yeah. I mean, a lot of people are using it. I I haven't really dived into it too much with with on the work front. You know, we we obviously use the Technology to help us, on the Microsoft Suite, you know, in the in the whole SharePoint thing and, But no. I haven't we we don't really use that too too much. I can see a great, use for it, but no.

Peter Allington:
Yeah. Not that I know of, Yeah.

Paul Spain:
Yep. Yeah. And I think, like, what what we've seen does vary from organization to organization and, you know, often there'll be there'll be individuals that really They jump in 1st. They get their feet wet. They're sort of early adopters, and and then, you know, as they find the best use cases, you know, bring the rest of the team with them. Now Neuralink, Musk's, in a company with this sort of, You know, brain interface, chip, they apparently have, in the last few days, done the first Implant into into a person's head. And, look, this this looks like Like, yeah, really interesting technology. Of course, there there's other companies in the space.

Paul Spain:
It's just that that, you know, The yeah. Musk Musk has a unique ability to, to to attract attention, and and to attract funding. And so, yeah, it is it is really interesting kind of, you know, watching how these things, progress. And yeah. I you know, I'm I'm really curious around how does this play out when you, you know, you give somebody, who may not have, you know, control of of any of their their limbs at all. The the ability to, communicate sort of, you know, largely by by thought and maybe by

Peter Allington:
Phenomenal.

Paul Spain:
Eye movements and so on if that that plays out. Right?

Peter Allington:
Yeah. Phenomenal. Yeah. If they can use that technology and actually, be able to communicate and do things. It's amazing.

Paul Spain:
So let's, let's wait and see. Hopefully, it's, It's, it's not one of those scary dystopian, technologies. And then yesterday, seeing Zuckerberg, You know, another one of these, you know, senate senate hearings where we we we see saw, you know, the the the CEOs And, and and and, and we are mostly founders across top sort of social media type companies. So, of course, Mark Zuckerberg representing, you know, Meta with with, especially Facebook and and Instagram, Discord CEO, Snap CEO, Snapchat CEO, the CEO of of TikTok was was there, And, Linda Yaccarino from X. I guess the the bit that came out was the CEO is really being called out to, address the online sort of child exploitation and and abuse that's been happening through these platforms. And the video that went viral was, you know, Zuckerberg sort of getting called out for this, asked if he had apologized to the families whose whose lives had been, you know, massively impacted whether it's, you know, some some, you know, the youngsters that have lost their lives and so on. So yeah. And and he was sort of said no.

Paul Spain:
And so he was called out to apologize, and there was a group there. And and and, you know, he did exactly that, I guess, in in in the form that he was he was able to do it. I guess what what caught my attention was, you know, how these leaders And I think of Mark Zuckerberg especially because, you know, he's been in this position, you know, for for a long, long time. Meta does seem to cause some so much damage

Peter Allington:
Mhmm.

Paul Spain:
And and really be, you know, so leaning in towards just what makes them profitable. Not even, you know, not even what makes them a you know, they didn't even care about making themselves look like a good company most most of the time other than, you know, very little sort of Weeks around the edges when you you come across people that have had their accounts hacked and and those sorts of things. Even people that are maybe, You know, Fred with a with a startup, they were spending 1,000 of dollars a month on advertising on on Facebook. Account got compromised and And just the the complete unwillingness of, you know, of the company to to help them at all to be able to resolve this this situation. You know, even though they could you could easily just justify it when you you look at what was being spent. They go a small way to address different things. So I thought it was really good to see them called out in the manner they were, maybe somewhat humbling for for, Zuckerberg to to have to respond. I guess my question is kinda you know, in doing so, Did that actually pull at his heartstrings, and is he is he going to is he gonna change, and and, you know, do these leaders really, You know, really care about the broad populace and other people's families or not.

Paul Spain:
And we've, you know, we've often heard around, You know, whether whether it's in in the jobs household or Gates household or or, you know and I imagine this is the case across, social media companies and so on as well. You know, what works for their family is often very, very different, to what happens for the rest. So even when when your company sells the the best of technology, makes the best things, you don't necessarily, let your children actually anywhere near, a lot of that a lot of that technology, and it just it it seems to me like there's there's a huge disconnect here. Am I am I off base?

Peter Allington:
No. I don't think so. I think I think they, it's it's all about profit, isn't it? You know? And I think they need to try and, they try and attract younger people to to be part of their product, and unfortunately, it's quite a harmful product. So, yeah, profit generally rules, though, unfortunately.

Paul Spain:
So do we need do you think we need regulations? Like, we've had regulations around tobacco and drugs and so on. You know, they There there's there's an argument that the, yeah, the way that that social media works and, you know, what it the the dopamine hit and so on that that, you know, effectively, you know, you can consider it consider it a drag in many ways and and the harm in terms of whether it's, you know, leading to suicides and and, you know, varying other sort of levels of, or varying, you know, aspects of of abuse, you know, especially amongst younger younger people. You know, do do we actually need to, to to really, you know, step up with some some regulations and and define What is and isn't an acceptable, you know, social network, you know, things like, more more transparent algorithms. So So it's understandable what a what a platform is doing in in certain ways, or is that just too hard?

Peter Allington:
Well, I think we've gotta be careful not to overregulate. I think you wanna start with, you know, industry standards. But, yeah, I mean, if it's harmful, we should we should start looking at regulation.

Paul Spain:
Yeah. Mhmm. It's I mean, these things these things are hard and even you know, we're Talking early around the the, you know, Google and and Facebook and the the platforms versus the news companies and who should be paying what and so on. It's it's not necessarily easy to land on how these things should work and, yeah, of course, you put in place a bunch of regulations and And, you know, you might destroy you know, in the in the case of Meta, I think there's some something like a, you know, $1,000,000,000,000, You know, type of, business in terms of market cap and and so on. Of course, these things go go go up and down. So yeah. And how do you justify that? How do you value the someone lives that are that are impacted and and so on? Tricky question. Really, really complicated, isn't it? So, I don't think we're gonna solve it, solve it all to, today.

Paul Spain:
So, yes. Sorry to disappoint anyone that we were gonna solve all the world's problems. But, hey, thanks everyone for joining us on on this episode of, the New Zealand, Tech Podcast. Great to, great great to have you, joining us again. This week, we're doing similar, as we've sort of started started doing. We're experimenting with this year. We're breaking into sort of smaller episodes. So, it's been great to have you, you know, join us as we we talk through, some of the the tech news that's, that's relevant this week, but we do have another episode to listen into where Peter and I are gonna be talking through what's happening with electrifying, transport in New Zealand.

Paul Spain:
We're gonna be delving into The the very challenging task of how do you electrify and charge, ferries. And, I I gotta say their, their batteries are a lot larger, than than your EV if you're driving an electric car, at home. And the, the the associated challenges with with charging are, are pretty insane. So that's gonna be really fascinating to jump into. So look out for that one. Of course, a big thank you to our show partners, to 1NZ, 2 Degrees Spark HP and Gorilla Technology. But, yeah, we look forward to, joining you as we delve into the world of Electricity and technology and the crossover and how we how we do good things with that. Well, thanks, Peter, for, for joining us.

Paul Spain:
Much appreciated.

Peter Allington:
Good stuff. Thank

Paul Spain:
you. Okay. Cheers.